An Interview With Neil French

This is an interview with the Advertising Godfather that i admired so much, Mr. Neil French. The content of this article was taken from the ihaveanidea website, a great website for everybody that have an interest about the world of advertising, go check it out if you have the time but for a while please enjoy this conversation instead....;)

I was going through all of Neil's ads as I pondered what to ask him. Some were simply honest, others were timeless, almost all were very funny, and others were plain and simple masterpieces. Yet they all have something in common, a cohesion, a voice. Neil's voice.

It baffled me. My work (and yours) gets molded (most times for the good) with the thoughts and opinions of clients, creative directors, account execs, peers and (most times for the bad) hillbilly focus groups. You should be happy if the nugget of your idea is alive at the end of the process. How then can Neil's work look so pure? Did clients knock on Ogilvy's door just to get a Neil French ad? (I'll take two please) Or was Neil's style so good that nobody could lay their fingers on it?

My take is that everybody's perception of Neil's work is wrong. Just because he worked partner-less didnt mean he worked alone. He worked in the company of the product. He probably had long conversations with cigarillos, bottles of Cognac, and Dove soap bars. He got to hear their secrets and old stories, and after merry long chats he simply asked them what they thought of themselves, and wrote it down.

Neil wasnt the composer, he was the a capella singer who sang the lyrics of the products soul.

ihaveanidea: I think the ad industry of the new millennium is very conservative. No smoking, drinking, or flirting. We work in our tidy, modern, Apple G4, artsy fartsy offices and hardly ever sin with a nice cocktail at 11:00 before a good brainstorming session. What's wrong with us? David Ogilvy said a Cognac before writing would help, you say a bottle of Rioja. Should the ad industry give up its monastery ways and let a bit loose?

Neil: Absolutely. There are few things in the world less enthralling than a bunch of advertising people talking earnestly about advertising. I was always delighted by the story of whatsisname, the bloke who came up with the 'Heineken reaches the parts' line, who had to go to Morocco and lie in the sun for a bit before he trotted it out. He probably got the line at the briefing, and spun out the tension for a while, so it'd seem more important. That's what I'd have done, anyway.David was always up for a little nip of something: We were in a presentation to Martell Cognac once, and I had to present some huge ads crammed with copy. Quite a fun read...but not aloud, and not to a roomful of Frenchmen, and not after lunch. David sensibly nodded off in the front row by the second paragraph. As I glumly made my way back to my seat, to tumultuous apathy, he woke with a start, and said, rather loudly, "Whisky and Soda!"There was a silence in the room. I leant over and said softly, "David, it's a cognac meeting". He waited half a beat, and shouted. "Right. Brandy and soda!" A consummate professional, and a very jolly bloke. Where are they now, these old geezers?The world is full of people who drink, smoke, fornicate, and tell mucky stories. And that's just the women. How the hell did advertising become so bloody intense, I have no idea.

"Talent is everything. Don't look at what people have done: Look at what they could do, given the chance."

ihaveanidea: Asia started the last and most important movement in advertising-the visual pun. My guess is that this goes along well with your theory of having as few elements in an ad as possible. Nonetheless, every product has been transformed to look like something else and frankly, I feel that advertisers, award shows and hell, even consumers, are sick of visual puns. Everybody says that long copy ads will be back, but the variables that oppose this of occurring are: Clutter and Time. Too much of the first and consumers having too little of the latter. What do you think the next ad style will be like?

Neil: Did Asia start the visual pun style? News to me, but I bow to your grasp of research and history and so on. Whoever it was should be spoken to sharply. I loathe that genre, and always have. I really can't see the argument that someone who has bought a newspaper or a magazine, presumably with the intention of reading the bugger, has no time to read a well-written ad, but has time to decipher the code connecting a picture to a logo.I think it's laziness in the first place; The creatives can't be bothered to think deeply about the product. Secondly, they either can't write, or are scared of doing so in case they reveal that they're rotten writers. And thirdly and tragically, award-juries have to tear round rooms full of ads, and don't have time to relax and think. "That's a neat idea", they say, and bingo, it's a metal doorstop. Lastly, creatives in non-English-speaking countries know that well-crafted copy in Thai (for instance) has zero chance in International Award schemes, whereas a visual joke can be universal. Which is why awards are an excellent measure of someone's mental alacrity, but a dubious method of judging work.If you look at the award-books, flick to the copy-section, and you'll find some far more interesting stuff, because there are fewer entries, and the judges know they have time.Actually, I think copy is coming back...possibly because you have to be able to read to enjoy the net.

ihaveanidea: Your position as creative godfather in the WPP sounds amazing. Nonetheless, I think a typical creative WPP employee is likely thinking: "Why are they paying Neil a gazillion dollars to creative direct WPP if I have a creative director, who has a regional creative director and a worldwide creative director. Do we really need another one on top?" Isn't WPP way too massive in size to have one person guide the creative? What does your WPP job entail?

Neil: In the first place, I'm not paid in bucket-loads. I could get a lot more as a senior copywriter in New York, for example. I'm certainly not in this for the money. I've made far more outside the business.But for the past five years, I was what the rank and file creatives flatteringly called 'Ogilvy's creative conscience'. It merely entailed finding the pockets of excellence, wherever they were in the world, and helping them to be recognised. Sure, there are plenty of levels of hierarchy, but each of them has so many agendas to worry about that it's nice to have a bloke you can go to who'll give you an honest (and not always welcome) opinion, and suggest ways to improve the work. And most importantly, to do so without worrying about who, at whatever level, might be upset. I'm totally apolitical, and utterly fearless.That's what a godfather does: you can tell him things you daren't tell your old dad, he'll find a way to get you out of the bind, and no-one else will ever find out. On the other hand, you'd better listen to what he says, or the concrete boots will beckon.I've always defined my schtick as being someone who 'neither begs nor fears your favours nor your hate'. (That's from MacBeth, mind you, and look what happened to him!)I couldn't begin to do this job if I weren't welcomed by the troops and the generals. I'm not 'on top' as you put it.

"Some great stuff has come out of Canada. But I take your point that it doesn't spring immediately to mind when the subject is raised. Your most telling comment is "...the work is very good, but nobody but Canadians know this". The awards are open to everyone; if you don't win 'em, it's nobody else's fault, is it?"

ihaveanidea: Having led Ogilvy's worldwide creative for many years and then taking a step back and overseeing the entire WPP network must have put O&M's culture in perspective. What is so special (or not) about David's agency?

Neil: The fact that the job is, at first sight, a bit big, is one of the factors that we'll have to wait on. I'm going to have to rely on the individual office-bosses and layers of competence, to steer me right. I'll be spread a bit thin, no doubt, but most of the work is done on email, anyway. I'll just have to work longer and harder.Ogilvy's still has vestiges of the David culture. Intelligent thought; an absence of dickheads; hard work rather than flashes of irrelevant brilliance. That's one of the things that makes it a great place to work. WPP handled the purchase brilliantly, in my view, and merely figured out ways to make that culture more efficient and profitable. The other WPP agencies have far more recently undergone major or minor upheavals, and so there's bound to be a bit of creative wobbling for a while. Every company has to discover its place in the scheme of things, and develop from there. The most important thing is that WPP honestly believes that, in the end, what we sell...all of us... is ideas. And they are determined that this focus is drilled into every facet of their businesses.To a large extent, that's what Sir Martin has asked me to help engender.

ihaveanidea: A Neil French ad is a Neil French ad. There's nothing quite like it. Very minimalist, to the point, and with a very strong voice (yours). It gives me the impression that you simply sat down and wrote it in an hour. What isn't so clear to me from looking at them is if you actually spent hours researching the products, going to the factory tours or talking to consumers. Do you just dispense with the bullshit brief and pull this stuff out of your hat, or are your headlines and ideas the product of deep production immersion?

Neil: I'm delighted to hear that you think my work sounds easy. That's always the aim. I'd hate it if all the slog and bother actually showed on the page! But you'll have to take my word that every idea has taken weeks of sometimes pointless research and long nights of polishing and honing before I allow myself the luxury of putting Rotring to paper. Once I know what I'm going to say, and how I'm going to say it, I do tend to write in a rush. I like the immediacy, and the sense that this is merely a conversation, not a sermon.

"Advertising is not the most important thing in the world. It's probably not in the top million. It's a great way to make a living, and meet some of the best people in the world...and, thank God, some of the silliest."

ihaveanidea: Everybody admires guys like you; "He's an Advertising demi-god" some say. Nonetheless, I don't think creatives really believe they can reach the stature that the ad gods of the Bernbach years and then your generation achieved. Most people are happy to win an award or two, pay off their mortgage and then leave and write a book. Is the romanticism needed to make ad gods gone?

Neil: I think you can dispense with the 'demi', thank you. Hey, I'm in entirely another generation from Billy-boy. I'm still alive, for starters. And without Bill, and a very few others like him, I'd never be even in the frame. I've stolen my style from lots of people: Charlie Saatchi, David Abbott, Andrew Rutherford, Ron Mather, Indra Sinha, Paul Arden, Jeff Stark...hundreds of 'em. I'm just the last man standing, that's all!I've probably survived because I never took myself seriously. Advertising is not the most important thing in the world. It's probably not in the top million. It's a great way to make a living, and meet some of the best people in the world...and, thank God, some of the silliest.And I have had an extraordinarily eventful life outside advertising. My advice to young people in this racket is always to get a life. (It somewhat harks back to your first question.)Just do what you enjoy doing, and in the way you enjoy doing it; never follow fashions or consciously try to create them. If your fellow-workers like your work, you may become well-known. And if they don't, and you don't, who gives a shit? It's only advertising. Nobody dies.

ihaveanidea: Neil, I want you to play Ad Doctor for a bit. Bear with me.Patient: Canada's ad industry.Illness: As an ad industry Canada has no international reputation. Nonetheless, it has the unexploited potential to become the best ad industry in the world. It's sort of like Japan's car industry (no natural resources to make cars but plenty of know-how) but Canada hasn't started producing ads to its full potential. It suffers from a severe case of psychological ad impotence. "We'll never make ads like the States or Europe, we don't have the budgets, we can't afford Joe Pitka, we cant' hire J-Lo to appear in our ads, so why even try?"Symptoms:Internally, agencies don't communicate amongst each other.Non-existent creative community.Regionally, the major cities couldn't care less about each other's work.Creative success is measured solely in Cannes Lions.It is considered impolite to say "Let's try to be the best in the world."Overall, the quality of work is very good, but nobody but Canadians know this.How can we cure this Dr. French?

Neil: I think you're being a bit hard. Some great stuff has come out of Canada. But I take your point that it doesn't spring immediately to mind when the subject is raised. Your most telling comment is "...the work is very good, but nobody but Canadians know this". The awards are open to everyone; if you don't win 'em, it's nobody else's fault, is it?You can't blame lack of budget: Singapore made an entire reputation with a budget that wouldn't buy dinner in a Chinese take-away. And when did hiring a celebrity ever lead to a great idea? That's all cop-out bullshit.How to 'cure' it? Be less defensive; care less about how you're perceived; be braver; have more fun. That'll do it.Oh, and ditch Cannes. It's a great trade-show, but an appalling award-show.

ihaveanidea: Tell me about your part in Boyko's VCU Adcenter Board. What do you think needs to happen to this and all schools in order to create better ad people, not just creatives, but account guys and planners too. In other words, what are all current ad college/school programs lacking Neil? What is so different about VCU Adcenter?

Neil: Isn't Boyko a great bloke?! I adore the man. He is the sort of American that, when we were kids, we always wanted Americans to be. Idealistic, taciturn, tough, emotional, funny. He is the difference between VCU Adcenter Board and the rest. (And that's not to say that there aren't other pockets of excellence; I'm a big fan of the Miami set-up, too, by the way)Rick will get the best teachers, and they will be the sort of people that the young turks can relate to. He's got the amazing Mark Fenske, for example. What Mark can't impart isn't worth knowing.I am SO looking forward to getting down there and boring the pants off everyone!

ihaveanidea: I am going to give you a million dollars so you can start your own agency tomorrow morning. Tell me how it would be like. Who'd you hire? (Sorry, Neil you can't do it all on your own) What would it look like? Would it have a wine cellar? Humidor?

Neil: I've got a million dollars, thanks. Several, in fact. And nothing in the world would persuade me to waste it on starting an ad agency. That's the hardest job in the world, and one of the most thankless. But. If someone asked me to design an agency, that's another question. Your million would just cover my fee, so send it anyway, OK?

It would have offices: with sofas. I hate this open-plan, hot-desk twaddle. It'd have a pool-table. It'd have several video-rooms. It wouldn't have a bar; there's a big difference between relaxation and alcoholic incapacity.Staffwise, the structure would be heavy on creatives and low on suits...but the suits would be terrifyingly good: the sort that complains because the ads are too easy to sell. They'd never have offices in another part of the building from the creatives. They'd have to work as teams...and if the team didn't work, I'd just change the team. Nigel Bogle would run the joint.I'd have very few planners. Generally, planners are creatives who can't write, or suits who can't sell. But if I could get John Steel, I'd have everyone genuflect at his door and crawl all the way to his desk.I wouldn't hire recognised creative 'stars'. I'd hire people I admire, who'd quite like to be stars, but wouldn't lay down their lives for it. Want some names? Al Jackson, Richard Johnson. Edward Ong, Mike Sutcliffe, Tim Crowther, Jack Fund. Never heard of most of them? I've got dozens of names in my file, all of whom could be demi-gods, and some of whom will.That's why this putative agency would become great in no time. Talent is everything. Don't look at what people have done: Look at what they could do, given the chance.